Sylvan Esso

“Let’s see what’s on my phone. There’s a dishwasher. A well pump drone sound. And a Taco John’s sauce dispenser.” —Nick Sanborn

“We got some really cool AAA hold music yesterday.” —Amelia Meath

As a found sound band, Sylvan Esso members Nick Sanborn and Amelia Meath find inspiration everywhere: appliances, birds, fast food restaurants, and telephone lines, to name a few. This is a great position for a songwriter to be in, because whether they’re eating tacos or washing dishes, there’s a song idea somewhere. “It’s an exciting thought to know that anything we hear anywhere can be an inspiration. Those sounds make the music more personal, almost like a diary,” says Sanborn.

When it comes time to actually writing songs, Sanborn and Meath diverge in their rituals. Sanborn needs his desk. “The practice of sitting down and deciding that something is going to happen always works for me,” he says. Meath, on the other hand, likes to walk around. “But I have to be changing activities a lot, particularly when I’m having a hard time. I’ve gotten really good at being able to tell when I can’t be in the studio anymore. I can be in there for about a half an hour, then I have to walk away,” she told me.

Sanborn also likes to clean before he writes, finding it “very cathartic.” In fact, he’ll unsettle things just so that he can settle and sort them later before he writes. I’ll play amateur psychologist here for a minute. Meath and Sanborn have often talked about they’ve never felt a sense of permanence anywhere because they’re always on the move. Perhaps their ideal writing environment reflects that: Meath gets ideas when she’s literally moving (walking), and Sanborn needs a bit of chaos (impermanence) around him to feel creative.

Read my latest interview with Amelia Meath and Nick Sanborn of Sylvan Esso after the video for “Numb.”

Is journaling ever a part of your creative process?

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Amelia (A): I was a big journaler as a kid, but I stopped as soon as I started writing songs because that’s where all my energy went. But even when I did, I was more of a visual journaler. I did lots of collaging.

Nick (N): No journaling., but I wish I did. Every couple of years, I get motivated to do it, but that’s it. It’s too bad, because often I wish I had something to look back on because my memory is so bad chronologically. It would be helpful to recall mundane events like having dinner with someone, because that would help me remember what I was feeling at the time. I’m much more tied to the emotion of an event rather that the chronology. But when I try to write about my feelings in a journal, I’m trying to write to an imaginary audience, and that bums me out.

That reminds me a little bit about what Hemingway said: you can’t write about a place when you’re in that place. You need distance from something to be able to write about it.

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A: It depends on the emotion. But I do find that I like to be away from home when I’m writing songs. It’s much easier when I’m not surrounded by myself.

N to A: One thing I love about your writing is that you always seems to be writing about something in that exact moment, then I realize that you were actually writing about that moment later on. When we look back on the music we’ve made, I recognize my emotional state within it after the fact. I hear my anxiety or what I was wrestling with or what we were doing, but I did not hear or feel those things in the moment we were making it.

Are there things you can do to put yourself back in that space to be able to write about it later on?

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A: No, because the more I try to force myself to go to a place, the harder it is to go there. I can’t ever say I’m going to write a song about X. I can figure out a line to base things off of as a starting point, but even then I end up talking about something else. I don’t have that much control over the process.

Is there any kind of ritual to your writing process?

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A: Not really. I do like to have a glass of water and my notebook since I do handwrite, but you have to be able to really live someplace to develop a ritual. And we’ve never lived somewhere long enough. I’ve never been good about carving out a a time or place to write. Nick just lets his desk get covered with stuff before he starts to write. Laughs.

N: The act of cleaning feels very cathartic before I start to create. I’m constantly moving things around in the never-ending quest to get something that feels clean and empowering. I’m always changing things, but I think the act of constantly unsettling things and then trying to settle them is something that I need. I have to be constantly figuring out the way something works. And in figuring out how something works or the best way to do something, I often create more work. I love that.

“ I do find that I like to be away from home when I’m writing songs. It’s much easier when I’m not surrounded by myself. ”

— Amelia Meath

Do you mean the act of cleaning a physical space, or is this a metaphor for something bigger?

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N: It works both ways. There’s a room where we keep all of our equipment, and I keep changing what I think might be fun. Moving things around is very rewarding and meditative for me.

I’d like to talk about the role of movement in your creative process. Do you ever get ideas while you’re doing things like walking or biking, or maybe doing some mundane task?

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N: Honestly, I get a lot of ideas at my desk. When I just sit down and start working, I make something that I like. The practice of sitting down and deciding that something is going to happen always works for me. But I still go back to the idea of cleaning: I’m moving things around and reorganizing in here all the time. And a lot of ideas come from that activity. That may be the mundane movement that you’re talking about. But if I’m going to write something, I don’t want to walk around and wait for a melody to pop into my head.

A: I walk around. That’s my favorite mundane activity to help me create music. But I have to be changing activities a lot, particularly when I’m having a hard time. I’ve gotten really good at being able to tell when I can’t be in the studio anymore. I can be in there for about a half an hour, then I have to walk away. But [Nick] can stay in there all day.

How often do you get song ideas from sounds in your environment?

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A: all the time. We’re a found sound band.

N: So many of our tracks start with a random voice memo. Our phones are full of random recordings we make when we’re out and hear a cool sound. Especially for me, I get excited when I hear a thing out and about that immediately tells me how the rest of the thing around it could be in a song.

What kind of sounds work the best?

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N: Let’s see what’s on my phone now. There’s a dishwasher.

A: We good some really good hold music yesterday.

N: Yeah, we got some great AAA hold music yesterday [plays it for me]. It’s very random and very emotional music, but because it was coming through the distortion of a phone, it’s really cool. And here’s some parakeets. And some people talking in a shop. Oh, and here’s a well pump drone. It’s a beautiful note our well pump was playing yesterday. I also have a Taco John’s sauce dispenser sound.

This goes a long with the whole “being inspired” thing. If you get excited enough by sound that you make it your job, you’re always listening. We’re always listening. It’s an exciting thought to know that anything we hear anywhere can be an inspiration. Those sounds make the music more personal, almost like a diary. We have a connection to all of those sounds, and they help us subliminally imbue the music with more intent and emotional purpose.

Photo credits: Shervin Lainez

Are there special places you go to find those sounds?

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A: No. You have to find it in the moment.

N: The studio is the place I go on purpose. Everywhere is an accident. That’s a good distinction. Like yesterday, my friend TJ came over. We tried out of a bunch of sounds by just messing around. And we got a loop that I just know I’ll use somewhere. So that felt like a place with intent. Finding things in the outside world is about always being aware that something might happen. You can’t really force that.

A songwriter recently told me how often he gets song ideas when he’s on the verge of sleep, in that moment just before dozing off. Does that ever happen?

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A: It seems to happen when I’m sick, when I’m trying to go to sleep because I’m in pain of some kind. That’s when those ideas appear. Sometimes I get cool songs in dreams. And then they happen when I wake up.

N: I’ve written songs in dreams before, but they are terrible. Pure derivative nonsense. It seems great when I’m dreaming, but it’s terrible when I wake up and sing it.

When it comes to lyrics, are you a computer person or a pen and paper person?

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A: I’m a pen and paper person. When I’m feeling self-conscious, I like to use composition notebooks, but I’ve recently moved to Moleskine notebooks because I like the large spead off the full page. And I’ve been experimenting with pencils, but I don’t really like them too much. I recently got a pretty pen. I have no idea what brand it is, but the tip is very thin, which I like.

As far as color, I like black the best. Blue is ok, but red is annoying.

Why pencil?

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A: When I’m writing a song, normally I’ll write the whole thing then stare at it. And that’s when I realize that I should change things up. That’s a problem when I use a pen. But the problem with a pencil is that when you erase, you lose track of your progress and vision of moving forward.

The last time we talked, Amelia, you were working your way through the works of Tennessee Williams [ed note: my dissertation subject!], so what are you reading now?

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A: I’m very stresed out because I’m eighteen books behind for my year-end reading goal! Right now I’m reading On Animals by Susan Orlean and Beautiful World, Where Are You by Sally Rooney. And before that, I was reading Malibu Rising by Tailor Jenkins Reid. She’s absolutely brilliant.

My favorite book is Practical Magic by Alice Hoffman. It’s a beautiful portrait of Yankee women in New England, which is me. It’s basically me and my family.

I’m always reading a physical book and an audiobook, and I listen to the audiobook while I’m doing everything.

Do you always read more than one book at a time? I try to read three books at a time: one fiction, one non-fiction, and one book of poetry.

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N: I always read more than one because I’m always afraid I’m going to fail at one, so I always have a backup. Right now, i’m reading John Lurie’s autobiography The History of Bones. I love it, but I’m moving very slowly because it’s intense and also a bit sad.

A: I always have to go fast through the sad ones.

N: My problem is that I’m getting to bed right when I’m tired. I need to find a new reading time.

A: You should read in the morning. It’s a nice way to welcome the day.

If a songwriter says to you, “I’m a songwriter, why do I need to read books?” what would you say?

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A: I don’t think I’d talk to that person. Laughs. We’re storytellers. You have to know how to tell a story.

N: You have to take new ideas in. You have to feed your brain.

A: You have to be constantly exploring new ideas, observing the world, digging the sand. Otherwise, you’re just writing about yourself. Ew.